Snake. You were, ma`am; and as I myself copied them with a feigned hand, there can be no suspicion as to their origin. And even a quick look at historical sources shows that this has been common since the thirteenth century. It was used by Shakespeare, Defoe (in the overture to Robinson Crusoe): „He obtained a good estate by goods, and abandoned his business, then lived in York; whence he had married my mother“), Smollett, Dickens (in A Christmas Carol: „He began to think that the source and mystery of this ghostly light might lie in the next room, whence he pursued it seemed to shine“), Dryden, Gibbon, Twain (in Innocents Abroad: „He traveled everywhere until he finally got to the place, whence it began“), and Trollope, and it appears 27 times in the King James Bible (including Psalm 121: „I will look up at the hills whence my help comes“). It is not only today that this has also been abused frequently. Grammar Nazis have long been angry at „when“ missteps since the thirteenth century. Given that people have been using the word „evil“ for hundreds of years, and that this faux pas is quite common today, one could naturally argue that it`s technically not wrong at all, just a little redundant. But otherwise, how are grammar Nazis supposed to complacently demonstrate superior linguistic intelligence in comments on the Internet if we don`t do such petty things? Hmmm?!? *Grammar Nazis of the world unite!* (Yes, I know. ;-)) Waaa haaa haaa, I understood correctly, then 🙂 I did not put „by when“. Laughing out loud. As interesting as it may seem, J.R.R. Tolkien was an Oxford professor and a scholar of Old English. 1 of its 1.
Jobs, believe it or not, was actually for the Oxford English Dictionary, where he studied the etymology of words of Germanic origin beginning with W!! Scripture, which is not intended to give dogmatic formulas, but to be the source from which all these formulas must be drawn according to the needs of the various Churches and ages. Britannica German: Translation of where for the Arabic-speaking evil presumption, where do you come from to cover the earth with your wickedness and deception? Xiao Li, how is American English „dumb“ for spelling a word true to the original AND the way it is pronounced? „Realize“/“Realize“ is pronounced in both the general North American and British pronunciation received as [ˈɹɪə.laɪz] with voiced alveolar fricative [z], not voiceless [s]. (Also useful for the International Phonetic Alphabet.) This is wrong if it is used by idiots who do not know its meaning, but „when“ becomes correct if it is used by Shakespeare, Tolkien or other legitimate geniuses who intentionally used it for poetic effects. I generally support the idea that „language evolves“. Words do not control us. Grammar sets a standard for clear communication so that ideas can be conveyed more easily. Grammar emerged as an auditory phenomenon, and punctuation is a tool that helps add inflection, rhythm, and other dimensions of language that cannot be conveyed with words. The words actually used are much less important than how they are pronounced, where the accent is, or even the body language.
Using a word incorrectly when people are used to hearing it misused is not the downfall of language. I will look up at the hills where my help comes from. I write something for school and use the word „where“. I didn`t put „from“ directly in front of the word, but I was wondering if the sentence fragment „From hell, where it comes from“ is still correct. I know it`s always redundant, but I think it sounds good, I just don`t want my English teacher to bore me about it. While I have several reactions to this (such as „Hey now, I never knew that“ and „Language is developing as it should“ and „If Billy Shakespeare is on board, so am I“), I just have to point out that your informative rant essentially stems from an aversion to redundancy (just), but you are guilty of the same crime: „Where did it come from for the first time?“ „First start“ is just as redundant as „from when“. Just? I wrote documents that were not translated, but were intended for an international audience. This made me more sensitive to the neglect of our regional dialects. My rule was that my reader should be able to search for every word in the translation dictionary (e.g., English-French) and find a definition narrow enough to understand my message.
„That`s the main advantage of using a word like `when` instead of just saying `from where`; This already implies the `of`. The statement „where it comes from“ is superfluous, but not false in this case, since no grammatical rules have been broken. There are hundreds of cases in the historical literature of „by when“ and I think it is absurd for modern writers to criticize the use of a historical word in modern English. I think the 400-year-old writings of Shakespeare and the Bible are probably better indicators of the proper use of a word that hasn`t been commonly used for hundreds of years than modern people whose only contact with the word is to sound poetically like Shakespeare, while stimulating their egos by thinking, that they know something more than 400 years old English that Shakespeare did not know. „To the abominable dust from which he sprang up, not wept, not honored and unknown. Source: dictionary.reference.com/browse/whence As with many other grammatical questions, prescriptivists can think about it in writing. If examples of „when“ date back to the 13th century and can be found in the King James Bible, Shakespeare, Dryden, etc., it is much more logical to say that this usage is correct and that the rule is incorrect or incomplete. You can find a similar history of usage behind „minus“ in conjunction with name counting: it goes back to King Alfred and the origin of the language. Many of these rules arose simply because an eighteenth-century type, perhaps in an effort to rationalize the language, said so more or less arbitrarily, or perhaps gave sanction to the particular dialect of his place/class.
„At first, we didn`t notice where it came from.“ „Where does the hobbit ring come from?“ „But where did the boat come from?“ „Where are you from?“ etc. „When“ is found in the „King James Version“ of the Bible (e.g., James 4:1) and Shakespeare (MacBeth: Act 4 scene 2, Romeo and Juliet: Act 1, scene 1, sonnet 48, etc.), both of which defined the modern English language. I.m.o., some argumentative errors are made in the comments section. 1) The fact that someone misspells a word – Nazis, ironic or not – does not make „when“ any less inaccurate. This is a mistake known as „tu quoque,“ which in this case means that a spelling mistake made by someone who says they found a mistake elsewhere does not change the accuracy or truth of the observation they made in the first place. 2) The fact that Shakespeare or the King James version of everything or JC himself uses „from where“ does not make „from where“ any less inaccurate. This is an error known as „argumentum ad verecundiam,“ in which someone tries to convince the public of an argument by relying on authority. [Sorry for the spelling mistakes, I`m still speaking and writing English correctly because it`s not my first language.] Aimeri de Narbonne, d`Almaric, [Footnote: A metathesis of Amalrian found in Anglo-Saxon.] hence Ital. The colonel and his two friends returned south, from where they came. I had a math teacher who taught high school and often used „where“ when he meant „therefore“, as in „and therefore 2x = 8 so x = 4“, unless he used „from where“. (Sure, math was a lot more esoteric than a high school class, but you get the idea.) When I come across this post and do a little more research, I see that „where“ may have been misused by my teacher, even if it sounded pretty good. Several guards moved around the vehicle, demanding where it came from and what the object was from the people inside.
They can also sometimes be seen in the south among the Catskills, where they were so numerous that they gave a name to the creek and the mountain from which it flows. Although sometimes criticized as redundant because „of“ is implied by the word from where in the language, the idiom from where in the language is ancient, well-established and standard.